Motivation & Recognition

20 Tales of Tibet
Chapter 2 Interview with Deyki

Interview with Deyki at the Tibetan Children's Village
Conducted by Betty Durham and Marc Thomas at Dharamsala, India,
January, 1996

Deyki is now eighteen years old. She came to Tibet when she was twelve, traveling over the Himalayas hidden in the back of a truck, alone. Once across the border, she was disguised and whisked through Nepal with the help of a Tibetan "underground", finally arriving in Dharamsala.

After three years of studying at Dharamsala, she returned to Tibet, to visit her mother, who was dying. Unable to obtain a passport to come home, she again took the "difficult route", over the Himalayas. This time, however, she was recognized at the border and imprisoned.

Q: Can you tell us why you came to Dharamsala?

Deyki: I was born in Lhasa and I studied at a Chinese school. I learned the Chinese language and a little bit about Tibetan language. At that time, I knew nothing about the freedom of Tibet, about the Dalai Lama, I didn't know anything. Our parents knew, but they were afraid to tell us about Tibet. Because if they tell us, and if we say anything about this at our school, it would cause problems for our parents.

So the children grow up not knowing that the Chinese invaded. They don't know anything about it.

Q: And they don't know about the Dalai Lama, at all?

Deyki: No. Some parents tell their children, there's a Dalai Lama living in India. Most of them don't know, they don't know anything about the Dalai Lama, they don't know anything about the freedom of Tibet. They are just studying in Chinese schools.

And when the first demonstration occurred in 1987, when I saw this I felt very sad inside. From that time, I learned that Tibet had been invaded by the Chinese, that we have our own country and our own leader.

So, I thought, there is no way to study in Tibet, and live in peace in Tibet. So I asked my parents, I told them I wanted to continue my education, I wanted to go to India to continue with my education.

It's very hard to travel from Tibet to India. So I requested my parents, and they told some businessman, and they got him help me to get through the border, the Nepal border and the Tibet border. At the border, I spent quite a lot of money for the Nepalese police to get through the border.

I couldn't go by mountain, I was so small I couldn't go. There was some businessman who bribed the Nepalese to get me through.

From Lhasa to the border, from Lhasa to a Tibetan village near the border, I traveled in a truck, hiding. On the way, the Chinese were searching, and checking, so many times. I was hiding under a lot of bedding.

Q: What year was this?

Deyki: 1987

Q: Were you all by yourself?

Deyki: Yes. I was terrified. Because if they check me, then they are going to put me inside a prison.

Q: How long was the truck ride, from Lhasa to the border?

Deyki: About three days. Actually three days, but we were one day in Shigatse, the second capital of Tibet.

Q: Were you able to not hide when you were there?

Deyki: Yes. And then when I reached the Nepalese border, there are some other people who are living, Tibetans who are living in Nepal. And they hired some taxi driver and disguised me in Nepalese clothes.

But on the way, when the Nepalese police were checking, they saw my face, and I have a lot of red in my cheeks, and they knew I was Tibetan. And they told me, they need money. And I had Tibetan money, and with this I got through Nepal.

Q: So you were twelve years old, and you did this?

Deyki: Yes. (laughs) Then I joined the school at Dharamsala. And for eight years I couldn't, I hadn't taken any vacation, because my parents were living in Tibet, and now it's far from Tibet, and I can't go back.

And then after a time, at my vacation, we have summer vacation, almost three months, so I tried to go and visit my parents in Tibet, because my mother is very sick. And some who came from Lhasa, they are giving me this opportunity to go to Tibet. So I tried to make a passport, but it is so hard to make a passport, it is difficult, so I started to, um, face the difficult, to see my parents, and I decide it is better.

Q: You mean, face the difficult, what do you mean, go the hard way?

Deyki: Yes. Without passport. So I had one friend, who also came from Lhasa. And then I start my journey on March of 1995. From Nepal there is some truck driver who carried people from Nepal to the Tibetan border. So we gave him money and we also went in his truck, from Katmandu.

And the driver, we had to go the back roads so the police didn't catch us. But when we reached the border, the drivers they didn't care, we were left from the truck, and they told me, go through the bridge. The guards were Chinese, they didn't speak my language, but my friend who was with me knew the language, and told the guards we were going to get things from the border town.

But then after some time, two guards came, and they were Tibetan, one of them was from Lhasa, but they were in the Chinese military. They were Tibetan. The soldier who came from Lhasa, he knew my face, and he told the others "listen, this girl is from Lhasa, she's not Nepali." So they caught us.

And we have some other people who also don't have passports. And we have about nine people. We were put in an empty house, without mats, no heating, only an empty house. And they didn't give us anything to eat. No food, no water. They told us, if we have money, we can buy something from the outside, only once in a day.

The boys have to go to the mountain and cut trees. And the soldiers use them for cooking, then they have to cut the trees and them make them small, in logs. Then they also beat the boys. The girls they didn't beat. They only put us in the house and locked us up.

After two days, I became so sick, because they gave us no mats, no blankets, just told us to sleep on the floor. And the house was so cold. So after two days, I asked the soldier I knew, in Chinese language, when they would let us go. Then they let us go, they took us in a truck, they were Chinese military, and they put us again, in a very dirty house. The boys and the girls, in a dirty house.

And one day, they check us, and they ask us everything about our history, where we come from, in India, which place, and who is your leader, who is your school head master, everything they ask us.

Q: Did you tell that you came from TCV [Tibetan Children's Village]?

Deyki: No because if we told them this, that we came from TCV, they obviously wanted to know about TCV, they were Tibetan communists, so we didn't tell them we were from TCV. We just said from another Tibetan school owned by the Indian government, where Tibetan people are living.

Then one day they tell us, we will go to Lhasa. And we are so happy, because we will meet our parents. And they put us in a small jeep, a lot of people in a small jeep, and all the people together. But they didn't send us to Lhasa, they sent us to Nyelam.

Q: So they said they were sending you to Lhasa, but they didn't?

Deyki: No. They lied. And they said that Nyelam, this was a very close place, and through Nyelam we can go through to Lhasa. And this place, it is not very big, a small place. Actually, they, we were caught by the border military, and they were giving us over to the police chief.

And then we are checked again. The girls check things, and the boys check other things. And then he took us, the police chief, in a small jeep, to the prison.

When I saw the prison gates, I was so shocked. I had never seen before such things. And I started crying. We are so small, and we didn't do anything bad, we just came to visit our parents, and they wouldn't listen to us, but put us, the girls together in one prison and the boys together in another prison. And there is one Tibetan, he is just watching us, every day, every day and night, he's watching, and lock us inside.

Q: Tibetan police?

Deyki: Tibetan police. Mostly it is Tibetan police who are doing these things. But we knew that they are not willing, but they have to fit the [inaudible] so they have to do this.

Sometimes, these boys are taken to Beijing, and put through school there, so their minds are, they have to change their minds. The are changing their minds, and then they will do things for the Chinese and never do anything for the Tibetan people.

Q: That must be very sad for you to see that, your own people?

Deyki: Yes. When we saw that our own people treat such things to us, we were very sad inside. But the other side, we know that they have to do it, otherwise they can't survive.

And then, in Nyelam, we stayed, we were about seven days. And in one day, they give us only one tsampa and it is not good, it is very bad.

Q: What is tsampa?

Deyki: Tsampa is Tibetan, a traditional food. It's made from barley, like a barley soup, it's white.

Q: That's it?

Deyki: Yes. And again they told us, if we have money, they can take us to the restaurant, once in a day. But they were taking guns on us, up to us. And we were eating inside and they were watching outside the restaurant, taking guns. And we were so uneasy when we were eating, and just so very sad inside.

And then, after seven days, they always put us inside, and it was very cold inside. Nyelam is very cold, it is very high altitude. An extremely cold place. And we told them to let us go outside, and they never let us go. Even when we go to the toilet, they come after us, with a gun. So uneasy.

After seven days, they told us, we have to go to Shigatse, the second capital of Tibet.We have to go by truck. And the way is very long and the weather is very cold. And they put us, now we have about twenty people, and two of them are students of us. And only we two go to visit our parents.

And in the truck, the truck is not a very nice one, it is always breaking down and breaking down. And the weather is oooooooo cold, very cold. And on the way, the truck is not working very well. And we have to stay the night in [Aze], another village. And in the other village there is a big police station, and another prison.

Q: So did they take you to the prison, then?

Deyki: Yes, again. In [Aze], there is a big prison there.

I was always crying in prison. [inaudible] before in my life. It is so hard. [inaudible] in prison is very hard.

And on the way, we met two mountaineers, from the States, who were going to climb [Jamanajo]. And they asked the police if they could also join the truck. And the police don't know English. And I told them that they are also going to Shigatse. And they asked at least to join with us. And they don't know that we are prisoners. And the police took a large gun, and they told us before we start our journey, that if we try to escape from the truck, they will shoot us, that they don't care about our life. And then, the weather's cold, and we were sitting on the truck.

Q: Was the truck open?

Deyki: Yes, open. And on the load we have to sit.

Q: On the load. But there's no sides on the truck, and no roof?

Deyki: No.

Q: The air is just blowing in?

Deyki: Yes. They never care, we are just like animals. And then, on the way, I told the two who came from the States, in English, I told them we were prisoners. And they were so shocked when they heard this. And then I told them all my story, from beginning to end. And they told us they would help us.

We were worried. We have a very short vacation. And we thought we would spend our three months' vacation inside the prison and we can't get back to India to continue our studies. We told these two people that the police held us out of contact, and we gave them our address.

We were so frightened, because if the police saw us, then we would have vanished, all of us. So the man, the one who was interviewing us, he went under one blanket, and I went under one blanket, and he used a microphone, and we talked. And I told him everything, and I wrote him our address, and I asked him to contact our school principal and tell him that we were caught by the Chinese if we were late for the school.

And when I was back in school in India, they had given a letter to the principal. And they asked if we come back to school, to write a letter to them, from school, that we were in India safely.

Q: And did you do this?

Deyki: Yes, I did this.

And then we reach, near the [Jamala] mountain we stopped, and the two people went, and we were, they put us in [Aze] prison one night, because the truck was not going. And the prison is built, it is very new, and there's no prisoners right now. And we were the only ones. And there were so many soldiers and policemen, and we were put inside the prison, but there are no materials inside the prison, no blankets, no mats, and they haven't given us food. And through all the way, we have no food. And we were empty stomach, and left inside the prison. And the night is so long.

In the morning we start our journey, about 9:00, to Shigatse. From Shigatse the police again checked our things, each police check one of us and interview one of us, on the age of 8 till now, when we went to India, in which school we are studying, and everything about India. And they also asked us why we came back, and if there's no joy in India, if life in India is not happy.

And we lied to him, that life in India is not happy and we miss our parents and come back. Because we had to lie to them.

And from Shigatse, we thought, we were quite near, from Shigatse to Lhasa is six hours, one day's journey, and we were so near Lhasa, we were so anxious to meet our parents. But one of our prisoners who wrote some about freedom of Tibet, when we were caught and put in Lhasa prison one night, they wrote on the wall about the freedom of Tibet. And this was seen by the Chinese police, and they went to the Shigatse policemen, and said these prisoners are not good, and they are maybe political prisoners.

And then they treat us very bad. Because they thought, actually they have a fear that Tibetans who come to Tibet try to make a Tibetan government, and they told them. So they have a fear inside their mind that we come for such things. And they treat us very bad.

After one night, we stayed in the police station, they go inside the office, one office together, and the boys they put in the prison, and shackled, because they thought the boys wrote this Tibetan freedom thing.

And some policemen they ask us, who was this, and they promise if we tell them, they will release us. But we knew who it is, but if we tell them, there are people who would suffer a lot, so we never told them who wrote this.

One night we stayed in the police station, and then they took us very far from the city. Near the mountains, there's a very, very big prison. And we never heard about this. And people said, this is just for people who came from India, 500 people who came to Tibet. This is mainly built for this.

Q: Do you know the name of this?

Deyki: Shigatse prison. Actually Shigatse is a big city, and far from this, from the city, they build this prison. They have lots of policemen, and soldiers also.

In the prison, there is a different prison, for political prisoners and another one for those who are doing some wrong. And they are treated very bad, and beaten very bad, the political prisoners, we heard. But we haven't seen them, because we were taken straight to our prison. And there were lots of prisons inside the gate.

And when we went to our prison, we saw many people who were caught by them before us.

Q: That must have been very frightening?

Deyki: Yes. And I cried a lot in prison. Before we entered the prison gates, I told them, we were just students, and we did nothing wrong, and let us go and visit our parents, and we don't want to go back to India. But they never listen to us.

And one thing is very sad, which I can't forget forever, in the police station, they made a blank board, a small board which the Chinese people do when a person is going to hang. They write their name on the board, and they hang it on their neck, you know. A small black board.

Q: They put it on their necks, if they're going to execute them?

Deyki: If they're going to execute someone. They put this little blackboard, and wrote their name on this, and hang it on their neck. They are doing similar like this to us, and took us a photograph. I was so sad inside, and I can't talk. I can't stand.

Q: So they took your photograph. They took the board, and they put your name, and they took your photograph.

Deyki: Yes. They are just doing this because if they again caught us, if you are caught a second time, then they say.

Q: And they also know who your parents are?

Deyki: No.

Q: They don't know who your parents are?

Deyki: No. I lied to them, everything. Even my name. (laughs). I was so frightened, when I lied them. Usually I don't like lies. At that time, I have to lie to them, for my life, and my parents also. So when I lied to them, I was frightened inside, but I'm assuring them, that I'm not lying. And the Chinese police officer when they asked us, don't lie, if you lie we will execute you, they told us.

We were so frightened. And in Shigatse they imprisoned us a week. And these days the food is also very bad, and we become sick. I was also become sick inside the prison, and the police are very afraid, because I'm vomiting, and stomach aching, they were quite afraid. And I am always crying and talking, and telling them I want to go outside.

After a week, my parents knew that I was caught by the police.

Q: Because you . . .

Deyki: Because some other people, who already reached Lhasa, and they told our parents, maybe we were caught by the police, because we started our journey before them, and they were already reaching Lhasa.

And then our parents start searching us, in all the prisons in Lhasa, and they didn't find us. And they asked some good police, who help the Tibetan people, they give them money and told, give them my photograph, and my friend's photograph, and told them, find these two girls.

I was lucky, because I lied them my name, and they didn't find out. My photograph is reaching Shigatse, actually, but I lied them that my name is Mima. They never find out me. (laughs). And after seven days my friend's parents, who came from Lhasa, they knew we were in Shigatse.

They were two days in Shigatse. And after two days they found us in Shigatse prison. And they gave money and things to the police. And then they let us go to Lhasa.

Q: So the police, after your friend's family gave them money. . .

Deyki: They said that we just came to visit them, and the police let us go.

Q: Did the police find out you'd been lying to them about your name?

Deyki: No.

And then we reaching Lhasa, I was very sad, because my mother is very sick. And when she heard that I'm coming from India to visit her, she's not good in her health, she came back to home, because she thought if I saw she's in hospital, I feel sad for her. So when I saw my mother, she's become so thin, and very weak. And she's so worried about me. And after that she also heard that I was in prison, and became worse than before.

And then I stayed in Tibet about a month. And I haven't stayed in my home. Because I have a goal, I want to see all the places, and I want to see how the changes have take place in Tibet. And I traveled so many places in Tibet.

And the most changes took place in Lhasa. Changes all over. Sad ones.

There were so many bars in Tibet. Before we have no bars, such bars, in Tibet, and there are so many bars. And they sell gambling, gambling also took place in Lhasa, and there is so many video halls in Tibet, and the video shows are not good ones, all bad, they are to make other people do bad.

Q: Pornographic?

Deyki: Most of the youth, the youth are, their minds destroyed by the Chinese, because there are so many night clubs in Tibet.

Q: So the Tibetans go to the night clubs, and to the bars?

Deyki: Yes.

Q: Even the young Tibetans?

Deyki: Yes, the young Tibetans. Most of the young Tibetans become bad, because they made so many things which make them bad. Bars, night clubs, video halls. In almost all the restaurants they have video.

Q: How young do the Tibetans go in and drink?

Deyki: There is no age limit.

Q: So they could go in if they were ten years old. And drink?

Deyki: Yes. And they didn't stop them.

Q: And the videos. Are they videos about violence, murder? Or are the videos about men and women?

Deyki: Yes, men and women. The murders and violence. But bad ones. Which spoil the child's mind, from a young age. And I saw these things, and I was very sad. And I told my neighbor's children, don't do that. Otherwise I can't tell them, all the people I can't tell, or we were afraid the Chinese people, they would have thought we were doing some political things, and we would be back in prison.

And most of the restaurants and shops, they are owned by the Chinese people, and the Tibetan people have only few. They have no place to survive. And I can tell the truth, that for Tibetan people, it is so hard to live in Lhasa now, because most of the restaurants and shops are owned by the Chinese people. And every day the Chinese people come from China to stay in Tibet and Lhasa.

Most of them, they are privileged, and so they stay in Lhasa. And when I see from my window, I saw most of the people are Chinese, there are only a few Tibetans, it is so sad, in our own little country, there are less of our own people, and more Chinese people.

The young ones, the youth ones, almost forget their tradition. They never try traditional clothes. Because they can't. And because the Chinese wear Western clothes. And the youth want to wear like the Chinese. And the students going to school, they have to wear the Chinese clothes. So they never wear tradition.

In school, the school fees are very high. And most of the Tibetans who are poor, they can't afford the children's school fee. So the children who are about 15 or 16, they have to leave the school and do jobs. And if they pass the school and they get a certificate, then they don't get a job, the jobs are always gotten by the Chinese people.

Because of this, many of the youth, they have a sad feeling inside, because they have no job. They have to get from their parents, every day. And their mind is not happy, so they go to bars, and drinking alcohol, and their mind is not happy. They go searching for jobs, but all the jobs are gotten by the Chinese people. Even if they are good educated, they don't get the job.

Students, who are in class 5 or 6, the Chinese government sends them to China. They want to change their minds, from an early age. Then they will not know about Tibet, they will just think the Chinese are good, they give them education. The little ones think this, because they took them to China.

And I also visited the monasteries, and the nuns and monks living in the monasteries, they have a strong feeling for the freedom of Tibet. Most of them demonstrated in Tibet. If they are involved in demonstration, they caught the nuns and monks, or laymen. And they put them in prison, and treat them very bad. And also some are bad treated by the police. And after, when they release, they are almost like a sick man, and they become useless, almost useless, and they don't let them go back to their monastery again, because the Chinese police only release them to their homes, they won't let them go back to their monastery if they demonstrated. And many of the nuns and monks, they have nowhere to go right now.

Q: So they can't go to their monasteries, and they have no place to go?

Deyki: Yes. The abbot of the monastery, they wanted to let them inside the monastery, because they are feeling, they are their own people, they didn't go any bad things, they just want the freedom of Tibet. The abbot wanted to let them inside, the Chinese police didn't let them go inside. Most of them who came from villages, they have to go back to their villages. Even they don't let them stay in Lhasa.

And many of the police, they are staying inside the monasteries. Because they thought the monks were doing something political, that they were demonstrating inside the monastery.

Q: So the police stay inside the monastery?

Deyki: Yes, they are staying inside the monastery.

In our history we have no such things. Police are military, are staying inside the monasteries. It is a religious place. They must have peace in the monastery. But they have no peace in Tibet.

Q: So you traveled around in Tibet, and looked to see, how it had changed in the time since you had left?

There's no changes in the villages. The villagers life it is still very poor. Even they have carried their water by animals. Only in Lhasa. They are giving so many privilege, which make the people to spoil their mind, and forget about Tibet freedom. They are almost doing like this. But not in the villages, they have no change, they are still very poor. And they have no school, they even don't know the Tibetan language.

When I saw little children, who don't read and write, and they are so anxious to learn something, and we saw, they had a feeling to study, and they wanted to do something. So I thought, after I went to India I had to study hard, I had to go back and to build some schools and give them education. They are so poor. They didn't get the opportunity like us.

Q: Now, how did you come back to India?

Deyki: I had to go back to school, to finish my obligation there. My parents also encouraged me, don't stay in Tibet, there is no peace in Tibet, and you have to finish your study, and with the Tibetan government in exile, and after we get freedom you can do some good things in your country. I also had the idea to come back, because I don't want to miss my school.

But I had a very sad feeling, because my mom is very sick at that time. And she just tried to show me that she is not sick, but I knew that she is very sick. And then my father went to search trucks and people to help me. And he went to so many people to help me. And then again some businessman who were going to Tibetan border, he gave them some money to help me to the Tibetan border. And he's doing business in the border town. And he helped me to go the bridge, which borders between Nepal and Tibet. And again I give money to the police, and I traveled in taxi to Katmandu.

And the most sad thing is, when I reach in school, after two months, I heard that my mom is dead.

And I'm so regretted, because of me, that her death is because of me. I give her such sorrow, that I make her sick.

Q: She must have been so happy to see you before she died?

Deyki: But I'm so sad, because she's very young. And when I heard this, I cried a lot. She was very young.

Q: How old?

Deyki: About 45. She's quite young.

Q: Do you know what made her sick?

Deyki: Blood pressure. And when I left from Tibet, I knew she is very, very sick. And she always tried to tell me that she's not sick. And when I left my home, she's crying. And then in school after two months, I hear that she's. . . I miss her.

Q: I'm very sorry.

Deyki: Yes.

Q: So when you came back, and now you're studying very hard. And you'll be taking your Class twelve exam?

Deyki: Yes. Next year, in 1997. March.

Q: And if you do well with your Class twelve exam?

Deyki: Then I could join the university, or join nursing training. But my idea is doing some nursing training, and doing some jobs for the Tibetan government in exile.

Q: And then you do plan to go back to Tibet? Do you plan to go before they get freedom, or do you plan to go after?

Deyki: I have an idea to go before we get freedom, to do something in Tibet. It is quite hard to do this, because the Chinese police always are watching us, and they will not let us do some good jobs in Tibet.

Q: Even if you are successful in getting back to Tibet, they don't put you in prison, but they watch you, and make sure you don't help other people, like teaching in schools or something?

Deyki: Yes. Because in teaching in schools, we are also doing some good jobs, we are going to change the attitude, the people who were spoiled by the Chinese. The Chinese government doesn't let us do such things in Tibet. So it is so hard. And here we've got freedom. Here in India.

Q: What does the word refugee mean to you?

Deyki: Refugee. We have lots in our country. And we have no freedom. Also we have no place to live We have not our own space. We have always an "R" on our head, for refugee. We always think that, in our minds, and we have to struggle, with other people who are living in India, we are not the same as the children who have their freedom, who have a country. We have two jobs to do. We have to study hard. Then we have to get our country back. We have to do such things.

Q: Thank you for telling us your story.